For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.

Not content to leave the above warning where the Book of Deuteronomy does, certain Roman Catholic clergymen have taken it upon themselves to extend it, punishing supporters for the sins of their candidates.

Consider the case of Douglas Kmiec, a supporter of Barack Obama’s presidential run who was denied Communion in April by a priest who takes exception to Obama’s pro-choice views.

MSNBC just announced that pastor Pfleger has been removed. He is no longer a priest.

This is more an announcement than diary but thought it was important to discuss and hear your thoughts.

The Wall Street Journal reports that pastor John Hagee, the man whose endorsement was worth so much to John McCain that he was willing to overlook a long history of vicious and heretical statements, is issuing a "letter of apology" to Catholics. You can see the letter here.

The letter is addressed to -- who else -- Catholic League president Bill Donohue, who accepted his apology. No doubt the two will be attending bake sales together in the near future.

I was raised Roman Catholic -- my mother was a Catechism teacher, that whole nine yards -- so as such am quite familiar with the history of anti-Catholic statements made by pastors like Hagee. So if Bill Donohue doesn't mind, or even if he does, I'm going to interject here.

First off: Bill Donohue is not the Batman of Catholicism. If you want to issue an apology to Catholics, there is an enormous list of people with actual important positions in the Catholic Church. There are Bishops, Archbishops, Cardinals, and a currently-German guy we like to call "The Holy Father". If the Roman Catholic Church was the Justice League, Donohue wouldn't be Superman, or Flash, nor even the clever but distinctly non-super Batman, the guy with no actual powers but more personal gadgets than a CIA-funded Sharper Image store. No, Donohue would be the guy who shows up at the door in his own handmade suit and will not leave.

So by addressing his "apology" to Bill Donohue, Hagee immediately shows his distain for the actual Church by apologizing not to them, but to a frequently controversial, frequently itself criticized political lobbying group with no actual power or position in the Church other than to denounce whatever pop culture trinket Bill Donohue feels needs a good denouncing on any particular day. Donohue is hardly less controversial than Hagee, and himself is prone to calling people "whores" and opining about the sexual habits of "secular Jews". Perhaps they can apologize to each other.

But I find a certain profundity in Hagee's letter. It is certainly not the letter one would expect of a self-styled prophet -- though as actual apology, it manages to be predictably oblique in what it is Hagee is apologizing for. He apologizes for stupidities he himself gleaned and repeated from longtime anti-Catholic rhetoric, but leaves intact his underlying, core presumption -- that the Catholic Church will be a vehicle for the Antichrist in Hagee's interpretations of imminent apocalypse, because we all suck so very badly. I suppose on this rather central point, we are expected to agree to disagree... after all, Hagee is careful to note that not all Catholics will serve Satan... some will be raptured away, after all.

According to the McCain logic discussed in this NY Times story, if person X says they like a candidate, that means (1) the candidate agrees with everything person X says and believes and (2) it's "a legitimate point of discussion." Building on this logic then, if a candidate actively sought and received person X's endorsement, then the candidate must fervently agree with everything person X says and believes and it's an important discussion point.  

So by McCain logic, we should all be discussing McCain's fervent agreement with John Hagee's anti-catholic views.

(Here is the Catholic League president's characterization of Hagee: "John Hagee, for the past few decades, has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church. For example, he likes calling it ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’" Watch Hagee video.)

Do you think the Obama campaign should apply McCain's guilt-by-association logic to McCain?

Bioethicist Steven Miles -- author of Oath Betrayed: Torture, Medical Complicity, and the War on Terror  -- sends us this extremely moving talk he gave to St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church. Miles deals here with the moral challenges posed by torture and the ways in which torture affects all of us by destroying community.

Hillary Clinton got away with an amazing feat in Pennsylvania.  In a dairy state, one in which there are two looming bans on milk - one to ban labeling of milk associated with a 7 times increased risk of breast cancer in order to promote it without anyone knowing about it, and one to ban good plain raw milk - her own disturbing connection to milk remained a secret.  In a state where dairy farmers (and other farmers) are living in literal fear of Monsanto, the fact that Monsanto has been running her campaign (even with Penn in the shadows now), remained a secret.

The other day, the Pope seemed like he was going to defy expectations with a show of righteousness, addressing the child abuse epidemic that infests America's priests. Instead, he delivered remarks that proved to be just as bad as if he had said nothing at all.

Roman Catholics appalled by the long-running scandal of sexual abuse perpetrated by pedophile priests, and the revolting cover-up by enabling Bishops that followed, have been eagerly awaiting Pope Benedict's definitive answer to the crisis. Well, now we know. As indicated in this New York Times article, the faithful and the angry victims get a pat on the head, while Benedict makes the utterly repugnant claim that the Church is a victim too. Meanwhile, nothing will actually change. No one will be held accountable. It appears that Benedict is channeling George W. Bush.
Details below the fold.

I'm having a hard time finding it, but I could have sworn I heard someone - recently - refer to Pope Benedict as "the Vatican's Cheney".

It's quite likely this post will draw the wrath of the perpetual fuming smokestack, Catholic League President Bill Donohue, but hey, it might slip under the radar.

Donohue is, very likely, going to be going without sleep for about the next week (which could make him more dangerous), with the Head Honcho in-country ... So many comments to swat down ... So many critics to bully ...

The NYT had an interesting FP story on the Catholic Church and the Dems today.  The story does not appear to have been diaried here today.

As the article notes, the swing in Catholic voters from supporting Gore in 2000 to supporting W in 2004 played a critical role in W actually prevailing in the latter election.  Every Dem has recognized that fact and tried to keep history from repeating itself in 2008.  Candidates have made Catholic outreach an express part of their campaigns.  A friend who's a theology prof at a Catholic university has been invited to meet w/ Howard Dean and w/ other Dems in DC.

As with the majority of my diaries... A lighthearted, snarky look at a slice of life.

Our Dear Leader is sooo desperate for some sort of shred of positive clothing for his legacy, that he is chasing down the pope at the airport (AAFB), throwing a party (that was not appropriate for the supplicant to offer) and doing his darnedest to maximize his contact (and watch for huge plasterings of photo ops) with the pontiff, in order that some glimmer of light will rub off onto himself!

Poor dear, bless his heart.  Who is on his knees kissing what now, hmmm?

(more below)

March 31st was the birthday of Cesar Chavez; and that's also the date California has set aside to honor the late, great labor leader ...

http://chavez.cde.ca.gov/...

Even though we weren't Latinos, Cesar Chavez meant a lot to my family.

I cannot take credit for this thought since I first heard it mentioned on Mike Malloy's Show, but it definiteley does bear repeating. It was emailed to Malloy by a listener and read on the air.  it is a great argument as far as refuting right wing demands that Obama resign from his church. Great insight.

Here it is as close as I can recall:

If Obama should renounce his membership in the Reverend Jeremiah Wright's church because of the Reverend's controversial statements, isn't it only right that since so many Catholic priests have molested children, that anyone who does not renounce and quit the Catholic Church is condoning child molestation if not guilty of it themselves"?

(That is pretty close to the original statement but probably not per batem. I'm sure you get the drift)

Yes, maybe a bit drastic, but I think most people would agree that it does make a point. Guilt by assocaition may have a bit of credence in some circumstances, but if they are going to make such far reaching demands on someone, shouldn't they carry them to their logical conclusion?

Just some food for thought and a good way to counter an unreasonable argument based mostly on gaining some kind of a political advantage. Don't you agree?

We, of course, take our title from Lenny Bruce, and his hysterical riff, Religions, Inc.

For Catholics, today (actually last evening) begins their, more-or-less, Super Bowl weekend, and the big trio of festivities with Good Friday, Holy Saturday, and the big day, Easter Sunday.

Rudy Giuliani's priest has been accused in grand jury proceedings of molesting several children and covering up the molestation of others. Giuliani would not disavow him on the campaign trail and still works with him.

Mitt Romney was part of a church that did not view black Americans as equals and actively discriminated against them. He stayed with that church all the way into his early thirties, until they were finally forced to change their policies to come into compliance with civil rights legislation. Romney never disavowed his church back then or now. He said he was proud of the faith of his fathers.

Jerry Falwell said America had 9/11 coming because we tolerated gays, feminists and liberals. It was our fault. Our chickens had come home to roost, if you will. John McCain proudly received his support and even spoke at his university's commencement.

Roman Catholic sex abuse cases
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Clerical sexual deviancy allegations have been made against a variety of religious groups including but not exclusively Roman Catholic priests monks and nuns. An estimated 0.2% of Roman Catholic priests have been proven to be abusers.

I've stated that I enjoy most posts on DailyKos and find participants less likely to indulge in mindless Catholic-bashing than I find on other sites. For the record, I am a Catholic Obama supporter, and I find most welcoming here. However the topic of science and religion usually brings forth some uninformed invective.

I'll address evolution and the Catholic Church below, but here's the Catholic priest/philosopher wins Templeton Prize on dialogue between science and religion.

You might have heard about this, but if you haven't, the Vatican has added the Seven New Social Sins to their repertoire of proselytizing. Previously, they had been: Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, and Pride. Punishments for these sins, according to official Vatican documents, were dismemberments, thrown in snake pits, made to eat rats, or smothered in fire. Those were SO 6th century Gregorian, so the Vatican announced 7 new deadly sins. It seems that... lo and behold... we were right all along! Christianity, and Jesus himself, are really Liberals!

Here is the new list, as well as my further amended list.